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@moonbus saidI can't recall it specifically, but I seem to have read something a long time ago, where some fringe biblical scholar had put forth an argument that Jesus may have been gay.
And why not? His version has two big things going for it: it is consistent (internally), and it is consistent with what we know about nature. The Gospels are neither.
But actually, I was referring to another work of archeology.
@pettytalk saidThere is no biblical basis for such a claim.
I can't recall it specifically, but I seem to have read something a long time ago, where some fringe biblical scholar had put forth an argument that Jesus may have been gay.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou mean to say that Jesus was not happy (gay) in choosing to have 12 men closely with him during those long 3 years of preaching the good news? And what of the particular one whom he especially loved?
There is no biblical basis for such a claim.
According to the Bible, angels are consistently referred to as male. This is evidenced by the use of masculine pronouns and the nature of angels as described in the scriptures. When angels appeared to people in the Bible, they were always seen as men. Jesus did say that in heaven, no one marries because we are all like angels.
I'm only stating what I seem to vaguely recall. And I also recall that there were more points for the argument. I'll try to stir my memory banks and see if I can recall more of the argument.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidLots of people here have an inability to articulate answers to pointed questions.
The two threads were generated by his inability to explain his false claim that his church has never worshipped Jesus. Had he posted honestly those threads wouldn't have been created.
@kellyjay saidYou think he has an inability to explain why the founder of his own church supported the notion of worshipping Jesus, while he himself has said it never happened?
Lots of people here have an inability to articulate answers to pointed questions.
I even provided a link to his own religious material that evidenced what I had stated.
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."
Charles Russell - Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYeah .. you need to give the guy a break. Here is what I think is going on here :
There is no biblical basis for such a claim.
- those prone to drunkeness, want to believe that Jesus was a drunkard as well and they have bible references to support
- those prone to womanising, want to believe that Jesus had many wives and / or slept with prostitutes. They also can produce evidence [sketchy type] to support their claim
- same with our friend Petty Talk. The guy is on the other side.
@galveston75 saidTHROUGHOUT the centuries, many in Christendom have worshiped Jesus Christ as if he were Almighty God. Jesus himself, however, directed attention and worship only to Jehovah God. For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10) Later Jesus instructed his disciples: “Do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.”—Matthew 23:9.
Is It Proper to Worship Jesus?
THROUGHOUT the centuries, many in Christendom have worshiped Jesus Christ as if he were Almighty God. Jesus himself, however, directed attention and worship only to Jehovah God. For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacre ...[text shortened]... ect their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty.
Now........ either you get it or you don't.
[John 14:7-11 NKJV] 7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 "Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
@galveston75 saidAre you going to post about any other religious group who may have been targeted or victimised in some way?
So....it's not surprising to see the general comments on the shooting that was done at the Kingdom Hall in Germany. I've been gone from the forums because of the massive amount of prejudice and biblical misunderstandings that some here show without even knowing it by every word they spout out and oh how that got so old to hear. And I see it is still controlled by the same ...[text shortened]... soon all such sadness will be gone because of Satan.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1963486
Did you know there was a time when the JW's would go door to door back when I was a teenager. Some people would get their dogs to run after them, they weren't well liked in the Catholic community.
Seemed like a nice enough people men and young teens all dressed in suits and the women in nice dresses and hats.
-VR
@very-rusty saidHi and thanks. Yes that has happened many time and worse. Many have been shot at and threatened in many ways. Many have also been killed or imprisoned as some are today in Russia.
Did you know there was a time when the JW's would go door to door back when I was a teenager. Some people would get their dogs to run after them, they weren't well liked in the Catholic community.
Seemed like a nice enough people men and young teens all dressed in suits and the women in nice dresses and hats.
-VR
Yes it is one thing to say no they are not interested but just as Jesus said that many would be killed and locked away for doing what Jesus told his followers to do and that is to teach about Jehovah his Father and to look forward to the paradise that Jesus and his Father will bring this earth back to very soon now.. Prison is not a great pace obviously but for the JW's that are there it actually gives them a chance to start bible study's with others and many of them have become JW's.
But no we are not liked as you can obviously see here. I would hate to come face to face with a couple posters here as I'd probably fear for my life.
"Jesus Christ left no doubt about what being his disciple would involve. “A slave is not greater than his master,” he told his followers. “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” Jesus was hated “without cause.” (John 15:18-20, 25; Psalm 69:4; Luke 23:22) His disciples could expect the same—opposition without justifiable basis. On more than one occasion, he warned them: “You will be objects of hatred.”—Matthew 10:22; 24:9. "
@galveston75 saidThe part I really don't understand is why they believe only 144,000 few will make it through the pearly gate? Where are the rest going to wind up? I know there must be more than 144,000 JW's, just from a quick glance in here, also many I know out in the world. What happens to them? This doesn't even take into consideration the 1. something Billion Catholics, are they all going to Hell?
Hi and thanks. Yes that has happened many time and worse. Many have been shot at and threatened in many ways. Many have also been killed or imprisoned as some are today in Russia.
Yes it is one thing to say no they are not interested but just as Jesus said that many would be killed and locked away for doing what Jesus told his followers to do and that is to teach about ...[text shortened]... On more than one occasion, he warned them: “You will be objects of hatred.”—Matthew 10:22; 24:9. "
1.378 billion
The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is the largest Christian church, with 1.378 billion baptized Catholics worldwide as of 2021. It is among the world's oldest and largest international institutions, and has played a prominent role in the history and development of Western civilization.
-VR
@very-rusty saidHe is going to dance around this so I will tell you. Their doctrine states:
The part I really don't understand is why they believe only 144,000 few will make it through the pearly gate? Where are the rest going to wind up? I know there must be more than 144,000 JW's, just from a quick glance in here, also many I know out in the world. What happens to them? This doesn't even take into consideration the 1. something Billion Catholics, are they all ...[text shortened]... ions, and has played a prominent role in the history and development of Western civilization.
-VR
- 144,000 Jehovah Witnesses will go to heaven
- the rest of the JWs and a few patriachs like Abraham etc, live for eternity on planet Earth
- the rest of the world from Adam to the end of the world are destroyed in Armageddon.
Jesus died to save the world, so I guess he is a failure.
@very-rusty saidYou're not fully understanding the concept of the 144,000.
The part I really don't understand is why they believe only 144,000 few will make it through the pearly gate? Where are the rest going to wind up? I know there must be more than 144,000 JW's, just from a quick glance in here, also many I know out in the world. What happens to them? This doesn't even take into consideration the 1. something Billion Catholics, are they all ...[text shortened]... ions, and has played a prominent role in the history and development of Western civilization.
-VR
That's okay, neither do the JWs.
@very-rusty saidI had a bit of fun with one trio who came to my door on a Saturday morning.
Did you know there was a time when the JW's would go door to door back when I was a teenager. Some people would get their dogs to run after them, they weren't well liked in the Catholic community.
Seemed like a nice enough people men and young teens all dressed in suits and the women in nice dresses and hats.
-VR
When I came out to talk with them dressed in a leather bustier with fishnets and high heels, and carrying a whip, they couldn't hit the road quickly enough. I heard the word "Jezebel" from the woman in the group as they trundled off. I laughed and laughed.
@Very-Rusty
Well if one really thinks about what the "bible" says about what happens to humans after death it is not what most religions teach. Most religions adopted many pagan influenced teachings about 400 years after Jesus death. The early Christians were warned that once all the apostles and the ones who followed them and stuck to the truths that Jesus explained and taught, finally died and the churches that ruled, started to let pagan teaching filter back into the churches. And because of pressures that existed to combine the churches, many truths disappeared.
One was a burning hell for all bad people. Another was that after all good people died, they would go to heaven.
Those are not taught in the bible.
Jesus said that a small group of chosen humans would be resurrected to heaven to serve with Jesus to rule over the earth. Rule over who? It would be the humans that found favor in Jehovah's eyes.
The earth was created for humans to live on. Only the 144,000 will go to heaven.
The explanation according to the bible will be below.
Try to ignore all the blind craziness that comes crawling out of the wood work in this forum... It gets really thick here....
Oh yeah. Look up all these scriptures in your bible.....
The Bible’s answer:
"God selects a limited number of faithful Christians who, after their death, will be resurrected to life in heaven. (1 Peter 1:3, 4) Once they have been chosen, they must continue to maintain a Christian standard of faith and conduct in order not to be disqualified from receiving their heavenly inheritance.—Ephesians 5:5; Philippians 3:12-14.
What will those who go to heaven do there?
They will serve alongside Jesus as kings and priests for 1,000 years. (Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:6) They will form the “new heavens,” or heavenly government, that will rule over the “new earth,” or earthly society. Those heavenly rulers will help restore mankind to the righteous conditions that God originally intended.—Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13.
How many will be resurrected to heaven?
The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4) In the vision recorded at Revelation 14:1-3, the apostle John saw “the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000.” In this vision, “the Lamb” represents the resurrected Jesus. (John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:19) “Mount Zion” represents the exalted position of Jesus and the 144,000 who rule with him in the heavens.—Psalm 2:6; Hebrews 12:22.
Those “who are called and chosen” to rule with Christ in the Kingdom are referred to as a “little flock.” (Revelation 17:14; Luke 12:32) This shows that they would be relatively few in comparison with the complete number of Jesus’ sheep.—John 10:16.
Misconceptions about those who go to heaven
Misconception: All good people go to heaven.
Fact: God promises everlasting life on earth for most good people.—Psalm 37:11, 29, 34.
Jesus said: “No man has ascended into heaven.” (John 3:13) He thus showed that good people who died before him, such as Abraham, Moses, Job, and David, did not go to heaven. (Acts 2:29, 34) Instead, they had the hope of being resurrected to life on earth.—Job 14:13-15.
The resurrection to heavenly life is called “the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:6) This indicates that there will be another resurrection. It will be an earthly one.
The Bible teaches that under the rule of God’s Kingdom, “death will be no more.” (Revelation 21:3, 4) This promise must apply to the earth, since death has never existed in heaven.
Misconception: Each person chooses whether he or she will receive life in heaven or on earth.
Fact: God determines which faithful Christians receive “the prize of the upward call,” that is, the hope of heavenly life. (Philippians 3:14) Personal desire or ambition has no bearing on a person’s being chosen.—Matthew 20:20-23.
Misconception: The hope of everlasting life on earth is an inferior one, offered only to those not worthy of going to heaven.
Fact: God calls those who will receive everlasting life on earth “my people,” “my chosen ones,” and “those blessed by Jehovah.” (Isaiah 65:21-23) They will have the privilege of fulfilling God’s original purpose for humankind—everlasting life in perfection on a paradise earth.—Genesis 1:28; Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18.
Misconception: The number 144,000 mentioned in Revelation is symbolic, not literal.
Fact: Although Revelation contains symbolic numbers, some of the numbers it uses are literal. For example, it speaks of “the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.” (Revelation 21:14) Consider the evidence for concluding that the number 144,000 should likewise be taken literally.
Revelation 7:4 records “the number of those who were sealed [or, confirmed for life in heaven], 144,000.” In the immediate context of this verse, a second group is contrasted: “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” Those of the “great crowd” also receive salvation from God. (Revelation 7:9, 10) If the number 144,000 were symbolic, referring instead to a group without number, then the contrast between the two groups would be lost. a
In addition, the 144,000 are described as being “bought from among mankind as firstfruits.” (Revelation 14:4) The expression “firstfruits” refers to a small representative selection. It aptly describes those who will rule in heaven with Christ over an undetermined number of subjects on earth.—Revelation 5:10.
Similarly, Professor Robert L. Thomas wrote regarding the figure 144,000 mentioned at Revelation 7:4: “It is a definite number in contrast with the indefinite number of 7:9. If it is taken symbolically, no number in the book can be taken literally.”—Revelation 1-7: An Exegetical Commentary, page 474.
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